SvelteKit 3, Solid 2 - Do they matter anymore?

00:00:00: Last week we had Svelket III and Solid II being released as release candidates, so not fully stable yet but almost.

00:00:10: And a couple of years ago this would have been an interesting thing.

00:00:15: you would've seen a bunch videos about it including by me off course maybe even a chorus.

00:00:21: And the question nowadays is, does that still matter?

00:00:24: Do new frameworks still matter at all or a new framework versions as we have it here.

00:00:31: Or does it not matter?

00:00:32: because with AI It's all about react anyways right and why would you even care?

00:00:38: I mean if AI writes so much code maybe all your code Why Would You Care About The Underlying Framework Or Library?

00:00:46: And I'd say you should care quite a bit.

00:00:49: and new frameworks or libraries do matter, but of course gaining traction is much harder than it used to be.

00:01:02: but it may be worse now.

00:01:05: But let's dig in!

00:01:07: Now I will not take a closer look at what exactly these frameworks or versions are about, we'll link the official announcements and blog posts though so you can dive into that... ...but i will say both are pretty interesting indeed.

00:01:32: it works with AI.

00:01:34: Because that is important, one reason against these new frameworks or the importance of new frameworks to speak against would be that AI has a favorite stack and that of course reacts etc.

00:01:55: And that's true.

00:01:58: but AI is pretty good at working with new unknown things too, as it turns out if you as the developer give it a right context and that's not to be underestimated.

00:02:12: Of course if your just vibing away & you're not steering AI in any way If you're vibe coding, which can be fine for certain one-off projects or throwaway software.

00:02:28: But if your doing that then of course yeah it'll not know what SvelteKit version three is necessarily and YOU wouldn't care about it!

00:02:37: You woudn't even tell AI to use that version.

00:02:40: so obviously new frameworks don't have a place in THAT world.

00:02:49: place and I don't know which role vibe coding will play in a few years, but right now you can definitely get a lot out of actually steering AI.

00:03:07: That's kind.

00:03:12: Our role as developers simply is changing.

00:03:15: We still should be controlling what we build and how we built it, And that we don't write the code anymore necessarily does not mean That we should not care about The code the architecture the decisions we make.

00:03:29: that Is As important as ever or maybe more Important than ever before.

00:03:34: I think the reasons for picking a framework over another are different now You know, back in two thousand nineteen and so on.

00:03:46: one major reason for picking a certain framework amongst others of course was the developer experience.

00:03:54: Do you have a good time working with it as a developer?

00:03:58: Obviously that mattered!

00:03:59: You don't always have that choice.

00:04:09: You may be employed somewhere where you are simply forced to use a certain framework or library, but as a developer depending on the company where your working and especially of course if yourself employed ,you can have some leverage in how decisions are made.

00:04:32: a framework has good developer ergonomics, if it offers a good developer experience.

00:04:41: That was not the only thing of course.

00:04:42: back then.

00:04:43: already performance mattered.

00:04:45: bundle size mattered than there are other things that may matter.

00:04:49: for example how easy or hard is to do service at rendering with aspects are less important now.

00:05:05: I would say developer experience doesn't really matter anymore!

00:05:10: Now what will matter is the AI experience, i don't know... What we call that?

00:05:15: Is it AX?

00:05:16: That of course matters a lot and things like the performance and the bundle size and all that stuff also still matters of course.

00:05:28: And I would argue You could say with AI now, because AI is so fast at spitting out code obviously it may actually matter less which framework you use.

00:05:43: Switching is easier than it used to be and you can therefore really see... And take a look at Which aspects matter for the app?

00:05:52: The project your working on what's most important for you framework or library for that and just use it.

00:06:00: And you don't have to care about developer experience, or anything like that?

00:06:03: I would say You Don't even Have To Care As Much About The Ecosystem Anymore!

00:06:07: The ecosystem Of Course Still Matters.

00:06:10: It Is A Factor.

00:06:11: For Example If Your Working With React You're Obviously Buying Into A Huge Ecosystem.

00:06:17: You Have Shad CN You Have A Bunch of Other Libraries But One Aspect That Matters Less Of course unfortunate for me, but that matters less is the amount of tutorials you have on a technology because again You may not be writing to code yourself anymore.

00:06:33: So that's one aspect.

00:06:34: That's not as important any more.

00:06:35: and also The other part of ecosystem the libraries and so on.

00:06:39: yeah sure It's nice to have that But AI it pretty good at just building whatever you wanted to build.

00:06:46: And if YOU want your own Shazian for Svelte?

00:06:51: There already is a Schatzi and Forsweld.

00:06:54: But if you wanted to build your own version of the library that exists for React but not for your favorite framework, You can just ask AI to do it!

00:07:02: You Can Just Ask AI To Fork Some Popular React Library And Port It To Your Favorite Framework Now.

00:07:12: That Will Not Be Worth The Effort For Every Little Site Demo Project You're Building Before Bigger Projects.

00:07:17: It Very Well May be.

00:07:19: you can do stuff like that.

00:07:21: So actually, I would say the ecosystem still matters but is less important than it used to be now.

00:07:29: what matters though and i mentioned this before Is the AI experience?

00:07:33: You could say in What Do I mean with That?

00:07:36: There are probably different things you Could Mean Here.

00:07:39: what I mean is how easy is It for AI To learn or understand The Thing the Framework the Library you Wanted to work With And How much does this framework force AI to write good code?

00:07:54: and I'll give you an example.

00:07:55: There is a fact now effect.

00:07:57: Is not a JavaScript front-end framework, but it nonetheless is a JavaScript or a typescript library Designed to help developers easily create complex synchronous and asynchronous programs.

00:08:08: You can for example use it on the back end.

00:08:10: It has a bunch of stuff included.

00:08:12: This really amazing And one thing that makes a factory may be amazing.

00:08:17: Probably one of the reasons why it is popular in a certain niche right now at least, Is that fact comes with a lot of rules That are actively enforced and will yell at you if your or DAI Are writing the wrong code.

00:08:35: If you're violating certain rules Of the effect library because its a typescript library It heavily embraces type script A lot of other stuff that can really force you to follow a certain set of rules, to write your programs in a certain way.

00:08:54: And when working with AI anything that enforces rules and yells at AI if it invents stuff or tries Anything like that can be good.

00:09:09: and thats one aspect of a good AI experience I would say.

00:09:12: Working with a library or framework, that enforces certain rules And that basically minimizes the amount of mistakes you can make or the amount off variants.

00:09:25: You could have in your code if you want to put it like dad, so let's one aspect.

00:09:29: The other aspect is how easy it is for AI to learn something and here It's Of course all about the docs because I mentioned earlier That with a eye You have something that is pretty good at working with new unknown things too.

00:09:44: Sure, it has all the baked in knowledge about React but to some degree you could even argue this was a bad thing because they learned a lot of bad patterns from these public repositories... But you just point AI on the right docs pages or give them the right skill And it can do pretty, pretty well at working with a certain technology.

00:10:08: I'm doing that all the time!

00:10:14: the docs, or what I like to do.

00:10:55: but the reasons shifted to some degree.

00:10:58: As mentioned, things like performance and so on will always matter because ultimately you're hopefully building products for The End User!

00:11:06: And The End user could be YOU if it's an internal tool or something like that.

00:11:10: But still... You want Something That Is Fast It Doesn't Crash All The Time.

00:11:15: So THAT ALL MATTERS.

00:11:16: But then in addition to that, what matters today is how well does a certain framework or library work with AI?

00:11:25: And of course changes.

00:11:26: How these frameworks and libraries are developed or should be developed and What the priorities of the developers behind this framework should be.

00:11:34: they should really try to build something That forces AI to work in a certain way and that minimizes The amount of mistakes I can make.

00:11:43: because Ultimately, what we're trying to do here is force a non-deterministic thing into kind of a deterministic world.

00:11:53: To get the best of both worlds!

00:11:55: To get flexibility and speed but avoid it going rogue and spitting out horrible code.

00:12:04: And yeah... New frameworks & libraries play an important role here.

00:12:11: Learning these frameworks and libraries certainly has changed.

00:12:14: You as a developer will most likely not spend hours on A huge course to learn a new framework or library.

00:12:24: you Will probably, And you should probably I certainly do Spend some time To pick up the basics with The docs With a YouTube video with a chorus.

00:12:34: of course that is also changing.

00:12:36: i'm Changing what?

00:12:37: I am producing because in order to efficiently work with something.

00:12:42: No matter what it is, through AI you need a basic understanding of the... thing you're working with.

00:12:49: You need to understand what to ask AI for, potential pitfalls best practices and so on!

00:12:56: So that is certainly changing how YOU learn things but does not mean the innovation around frameworks or libraries wouldn't matter anymore….

00:13:06: I think it matters more than ever because there's a lot of empty space for innovation, for frameworks that give AI clearer rules and of course always four frameworks libraries tools.

00:13:20: That allow us to build faster more performant more error-free and so on applications.

00:13:26: because ultimately as I mentioned